tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post8335087651429294604..comments2023-11-05T02:10:50.039-07:00Comments on Drape's Takes: Edublogger Etiquette - Twitter & Self-PromotionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-51551937447326544762008-05-09T19:42:00.000-06:002008-05-09T19:42:00.000-06:00Very interested in this conversation at NECC - I h...Very interested in this conversation at NECC - I hope you Ustream it!!Durffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05683687754001195123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-31073820141405869692008-05-07T12:18:00.000-06:002008-05-07T12:18:00.000-06:00so many interesting ideas here, people! Darren, I ...so many interesting ideas here, people! Darren, I for one, never seem to reach the saturation point with reading people's thoughts about the new technologies. They are still new enough that I think there is still a lot of room for figuring things out. I appreciate you attempting to come up with a standard of etiquette for the medium. <BR/>That said, I have to agree with some of the others, that it is all open to personal choices. I've played around with my twitter network, adding and unfollowing based on all kinds of things. I can always add someone back if I really miss them- unless they block me, of course. I've not yet been bothered by too much self-promotion on twitter, although I don't spend too much time on twitter.<BR/>@bill- I am really intrigued by your question about edubloggers being more worried about self promotion than other bloggers. Very interesting idea and I know exactly what you are saying about top performers being outcast by peers. I recently read an interesting article about this -it was part of a research study which found that innovative teachers tend to downplay and even hide what they are doing from coworkers rather than share because it tended to provoke jealousy rather than interest. Huge SIGH. I could say much more, but I will end my overly long comment here.Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10630103304646424890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-48165473002950019602008-05-06T11:48:00.000-06:002008-05-06T11:48:00.000-06:00David,Unfortunately, as soon as you chose to drop ...David,<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, as soon as you chose to drop a person from your Twitter stream, you will inherently lose an arguably important dimension to the conversation that you possibly once had (I say 'arguably' and 'possibly' only because some people bring joy by entering the room, while others bring joy by leaving).<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, if this now-dropped person once enriched the conversation, it IS a tragedy that their self-promotion (or other undesirable behavior, for that matter) will lesson the potential for dialog - because of your self-interest.<BR/><BR/>Along these lines, if I'm understanding you correctly Jakes, I have dropped several people from my Twitter stream simply because they would continually employ language that I felt was inappropriate for a public conversation (as a teacher, I simply can't have swear words constantly flowing through my Twitter stream). And while I definitely miss the pearls of positive thought that they once contributed to my Twitter stream, I feel much more comfortable without their presence because I know I - and those that might be exposed to my Twitter stream through classes I teach - won't be exposed to their occasional slip of the tongue.Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-87548079849722518922008-05-06T11:22:00.000-06:002008-05-06T11:22:00.000-06:00@Lee and @darren. Ok, so if someone self-promotes...@Lee and @darren. Ok, so if someone self-promotes and it's beyond what you as the individual personally tolerates, you drop them. Very true-but go deeper. My question: Because you drop the person, does the conversation then become less rich? Does that self-interest (and whatever that means to you)lessen the potential for dialog? That's why I linked my ideas to the Tragedy of the Commons principle by the way.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07323501470071470799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-45504839621163240422008-05-06T10:40:00.000-06:002008-05-06T10:40:00.000-06:00> So to me, on Twitter there is no Spam and althou...> So to me, on Twitter there is no Spam and although there is self promotion going on, it is only consumed by those who choose to. :)<BR/><BR/>I think you've nailed it, Lee. Very well said.<BR/><BR/>Addressing your other thoughts, as one that has hundreds of followers on Twitter, I am still very interested in participating in the conversation. In fact, I would follow every educator that follows me if it were feasible for me to actually <I>follow</I> the conversation. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, I eventually reached the point wherein it was literally impossible for me to keep up (see my post here, if you're interested - http://tinyurl.com/353bhc).Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-73501296944980359702008-05-06T05:10:00.000-06:002008-05-06T05:10:00.000-06:00@BillI agree with you when you say, "I actually li...@Bill<BR/>I agree with you when you say, "I actually like when the people that I follow self promote their work in Twitter, primarily because I sometimes fail to catch up with them in my RSS feed..." I find myself quite engrossed in the conversations rolling on my Twitterfeed that I do appreciate it when someone else plucks out a gem for me. I do the same and I've heard others say they appreciate it. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I have unfollowed a few who repeatedly pitch for themselves and never engage in conversation, only follow a handful of people and have hundreds who follow them. These people, who may be brilliant, do not want a conversation. They want an audience. For them, I will go read their blog or visit them at a conference.<BR/><BR/>As for annoying tweets of self promotion, I do think there is no real issue because the fix is to simply click *unfollow.* Just as there have been issues with "spam" on Twitter, I don't buy it. Anyone can follow you in the hopes that you will follow them back. And if you do, then they can certainly blast you with promotions, however you ultimately have the control to turn them off and stop receiving their tweets. So to me, on Twitter there is no Spam and although there is self promotion going on, it is only consumed by those who choose to. :)Lee Kolberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14710085354049378555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-12310140752894979022008-05-05T21:56:00.000-06:002008-05-05T21:56:00.000-06:00Harold and Diane, I appreciate the fact that you t...Harold and Diane, I appreciate the fact that you think we've reached saturation in this discussion surrounding etiquette. Nevertheless, while you may have tired of the analysis (or over-analysis), I suspect that a great many teachers that are beginning to blog are quite content to sit back and take a little more in. For an example of this, simply read the comments of Britt, Shelley, or John Peters in the "index" post of this thread ( http://tinyurl.com/62f73f ).<BR/><BR/>As I have stated before, my intention has never been to lay down the law. In fact, I have been very careful to NOT prescribe any suggest course of action.<BR/><BR/>To the contrary, I have simply illustrated a number of behaviors that have taken place throughout the edublogosphere and have asked a series of questions. In doing this, I hope to illustrate a few of "the ropes" that exist out there - so that new bloggers can then make their own decisions as to how they will behave.<BR/><BR/>To say that anyone can lay down the law in this Wild frontier that we call the blogosphere is to be completely ignorant of reality.Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-43757076479353042152008-05-05T20:40:00.000-06:002008-05-05T20:40:00.000-06:00I'm in agreement with Harold Shaw. Is it because w...I'm in agreement with Harold Shaw. <BR/><BR/>Is it because we're teachers that we have this need to "get it right"?<BR/><BR/>Let's not underestimate the role of play in learning, even as adults. I don't want that extra layer of "edublogger etiquette" imposed on my personal learning.<BR/><BR/>Natural consequences will take care of my gaffs. If I tag improperly I'll find myself talking in an empty room. If my twitter posts are boring or inappropriate, once again I'll find myself in that empty room.<BR/><BR/>Actually that's a pretty good way of looking at it. Mess up often enough and you'll be isolated by the network, sent to an empty room.Diane Hammondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03400444065964813644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-71709032555040517382008-05-05T18:56:00.000-06:002008-05-05T18:56:00.000-06:00And to think, politicians thought they needed to d...And to think, politicians thought they needed to dangle incentive money to make educators competitive. All they really need is a free blog and a free Twitter account. Race to be first.Scott S. Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05535489986712327244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-65913945744540612482008-05-05T18:47:00.000-06:002008-05-05T18:47:00.000-06:00cross posted on http://hshawjr.edublogs.org/Darren...cross posted on http://hshawjr.edublogs.org/<BR/><BR/>Darren please - I am not directing this post at you - it is directed @world using the twitter abbreviation.<BR/><BR/>Actually, I am beginning to get rather bored with this whole subject, on how we should act in the edublogosphere or edtech world. We are all adults with the ability to think and act for ourselves. Isn't it time for us to act as the adults we are and make choices and decisions for ourselves regarding our conduct/content on twitter, our blogs or elsewhere on the web. We have the ability to create our own online identities and reputations with our comments, blogs and responses to others. <BR/><BR/>What does bother me is the "push" that some out here are attempting what that appears to be an effort to "standardize", sanitize and sterilize the Edublogosphere or the EdTech online world or mold it into something different than it is today, but more to their liking. It seems to me all of us have enough people telling us "how to" do thing in our lives that we don't need to have another set of rules in place to tell us how to "behave" in this Edtech/Edublog online world. <BR/><BR/>As I have said before - I really like the freedom to experiment, try new things and have others provide feedback on my efforts (both positive and "constructive"). If someone doesn't like how I am or someone else is advertising themselves, their respective comments, or whatever is going on it is pretty easy to either "block" or simply hit the "delete" key on the offending party and you don't have to read "their stuff". <BR/><BR/>If I don't properly cite an image or comment everytime - so what - this is not a formal piece of work that needs to meet MLA or APA writing standards. As long as I attempt to give appropriate credit where credit is do, and do not intend to claim the work as I my own, I believe that is enough. The edublogosphere and edtech online are simply an informal method of communication that I enjoy. This is not my classroom, school or a classroom I am a part of, it is me being around other educators in an informal learning environment, so I am not attempting to be a role model of scholarly work, each time I write on the web in these forums.<BR/><BR/>If this "Personal Learning Network" were to become very formalized with standards of conduct, writing or how we should comment to "more important" others in the hierarchy, then I don't believe that it would be as much fun and I probably would not participate in it as often.<BR/><BR/>This is simply an issue that in my opinion has been talked about too much, taken way too seriously and needs to go away. I believe that the edublogosphere/edtech world has spent way too much time and effort on what is essentially a non-issue. Please don't tell me what to do in this informal, voluntary, personal learning network that I have learned so much from already, I get that enough at work. <BR/><BR/>Finally, many/most of the tools that we "educators" appear to be "adopting" and using to promote the edublogosphere were not developed specifically for us. They are multipurpose tools, multi-interest group tools, that are used by more than just educators -- are we going to "police" the other users of these tools? I really don't believe so, so really this is a moot/mote point and just needs to go away.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for an originally short comment, it turned into a bit of a rant. :)Haroldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15199264917553613356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-67210763461779742922008-05-05T17:55:00.000-06:002008-05-05T17:55:00.000-06:00Darren asked:Would you mind if I added them to the...Darren asked:<BR/>Would you mind if I added them to the post (citing you, of course)?<BR/><BR/>Sure, Darren----you can definitely add my questions to the conversation. <BR/><BR/>Actually, I've been thinking a ton more about your post in the past few hours (thanks for the cognitive dissonance!) and I had another interesting question:<BR/><BR/>Do you think the egalitarian tradition in education causes edubloggers to worry more about self promotion than people in other professions?<BR/><BR/>I know that in most every building where I've ever worked, the "top performers" were always considered outcasts by their peers. They were called "apple polishers" and shamed any time they earned recognition for doing something great.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes I wonder if the lack of a clear vision/picture of "excellence" in teaching makes it difficult for anyone to "stand out," which by default means that self promotion is bad. <BR/><BR/>That's one that I've got to role around a bit more in my head----but I wonder if you're on to something bigger than blogging. I wonder if our feelings towards self promotion via Twitter are really evidence of a broader trend towards "false equality" in teaching. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the conversation, <BR/>Bill Ferriter<BR/>@plugusinBill F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06569401112555104479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-83504736836308624872008-05-05T15:59:00.000-06:002008-05-05T15:59:00.000-06:00Bam bam,I think that you've nailed it with one wor...Bam bam,<BR/><BR/>I think that you've nailed it with one word that can be extremely difficult to measure: intent.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, I really like your questions and think they should probably be promoted to the post itself. <BR/><BR/>Would you mind if I added them to the post (citing you, of course)?Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-88856416297971415072008-05-05T15:54:00.000-06:002008-05-05T15:54:00.000-06:00Darren asked:When do a person's advertisements (on...Darren asked:<BR/>When do a person's advertisements (on various social networks) for activities they may be promoting become an undesirable display of self-promotion?<BR/><BR/>This is a tough one, Darren. For me, it's not about the quantity of self-promoting posts that one makes. <BR/><BR/>Instead, it's about intent. Does the person self-promote simply to get people to see how brilliant they are, or is their intention to draw others into a conversation about their ideas. <BR/><BR/>In the initial "tweet," intent may not be evident---but after following someone for a while, that becomes pretty clear. If a person never engages in dialogue with others....never links to others....never responds to others in their blog posts, then their self promotion is singular and isolated----and offensive. <BR/><BR/>But if someone who is constantly engaging with others as an equal participant----and sees the ideas of others as valuable enough to respond to in their own work, self promotion is nothing more than pointing friends to interesting thoughts. <BR/><BR/>I actually like when the people that I follow self promote their work in Twitter, primarily because I sometimes fail to catch up with them in my RSS feed. The immediacy of Twitter draws my attention and makes their post stand out from the crush that my feeds can become. <BR/><BR/>Do you think that the idea of "offensive self promotion" takes care of itself in the very act of "following?" <BR/><BR/>Do we simply "un-follow" those who's level of self promotion bothers us or whose intent we question?<BR/><BR/>Better question: Is the standard for reasonable self promotion something that varies by reader? <BR/><BR/>Interesting thoughts...<BR/>Bill FerriterBill F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06569401112555104479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-90272080477763466422008-05-05T15:08:00.000-06:002008-05-05T15:08:00.000-06:00I'm glad you able to wade through the muck! I know...I'm glad you able to wade through the muck! I know it was thick.<BR/><BR/>I'm definitely looking forward to June.Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-14308758969999418162008-05-05T14:55:00.000-06:002008-05-05T14:55:00.000-06:00Awesome. I appreciate the irony, Darren: a post ab...Awesome. I appreciate the irony, Darren: a post about self-promotion that's an example of self-promotion. ;)<BR/><BR/>That being said, it's a discussion I'd be interested in when we're in San Antonio.Mark Wagner, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05333726713166867429noreply@blogger.com