tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post7644031732954550495..comments2023-11-05T02:10:50.039-07:00Comments on Drape's Takes: Some Kids Really Aren't AlrightUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-64033505520933259492008-03-18T18:41:00.000-06:002008-03-18T18:41:00.000-06:00"Kids" is a term for young goats....I detest the n..."Kids" is a term for young goats....I detest the name being labeled for children. We, human beings, have children, not goats. I have children myself and do not like my children being labeled as goats. Now, other Americans may like it and it is their right to do so, but why would anyone want their children to be called a "kid goat?" It does not make any sense at all. Call them children, students, learners, young individuals, but PLEASE NOT "kids"!!<BR/><BR/>Thank you!!!Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09679304488605498154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-62294784166057482202007-12-17T09:29:00.000-07:002007-12-17T09:29:00.000-07:00I'm curious, you state that, "It's been (your) exp...I'm curious, you state that, "It's been (your) experience that policies are put into place because something has occurred warranting their need." Did something occur at your district that determined the need for this policy? My experience has been that districts put these policies in place because they need to meet a requirement for child safety for grant funding, ERate funding, or tech planning requirements.<BR/><BR/>It appears to me that your district policy and the content of the video aren't really on the same topic. The district policy outlines what can be posted on a school or district web site (I'm assuming staff). Students don't often have the privilege of being webmasters on their school or district web sites.<BR/><BR/>I'm not trying to dismiss the potential dangers of the topic of your post. And I applaud your efforts to educate people about the online environment, rather than let people bury their head in the sand and avoid the 21st century. However as Dean has pointed out, and as was the topic of this NY Times article,http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/fashion/16meangirls.html?_r=1&ref=technology, cyberbullying seems to be a much more typical behavior of students online.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03428415226574737108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-12596163825029266612007-12-16T07:07:00.000-07:002007-12-16T07:07:00.000-07:00This has been quite and interesting blog and comme...This has been quite and interesting blog and comment section. I agree that "balance" is the key. Just one other factor to consider - that Internet Safety has become an industry. There is money to be made, there are "nonprofits" that are charging for their services, and when money is to be made doesn't then a market have to be enhanced in some way so that the product is desired by a larger number of people?<BR/><BR/>I'm a parent, I don't want any child in any way to get on the radar of predators. So I believe we need to educator our children and set the bar for what they should and shouldn't do online. (And Dr. Seymour Papert joins in the "kids are baby goats" - call them something else - group, fyi.)<BR/><BR/>But in my opinion some of the videos are over the top, some of the people holding workshops at schools are in the business of terrifying people, and balance is not always the goal.<BR/><BR/>I agree that digital citizenship should be taught. Chances are this poor girl in the video did not have a school program to inform her. So I think we should do what we're best at, educating, but without buying into extreme and non-statistical examples.Pamela Livingstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062883843775937743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-45543011453783778912007-12-15T22:57:00.000-07:002007-12-15T22:57:00.000-07:00@matt - I hate to burst your reality bubble here, ...@matt - I hate to burst your reality bubble here, but the reason there are so many "predator" stories out there is because they exist. Does the media often over-sensationalize the content? Yes, but we definitely have a problem. It's time to address it.<BR/><BR/>@dean - I'm with you on one thing here: "kids" is not a degrading term, in my opinion. For years, I referred to my high-school students as "my kids" - more of a term of endearment (signally that I really cared about them) than anything I ever tried to use in distancing them from me. Perhaps the term has slightly different connotations in other places?<BR/><BR/>@dean, et al: Now, on to the other topic at hand: whether or not it is safe for children to post personal information to the Internet. While I, too, must admit that I don't recall any specific cases of harm coming to a child because of posted personal information, I do know one thing (argument or not):<BR/><BR/>The point you're attempting to make (about there being no statistical basis join such a cause) takes a liberal point of view. And let's face it: extremism sells. If I hadn't put the bit about cell phones in Pay Attention, there's no way it would have gained the popularity that it did. The liberal spin I put on it propelled it in the minds of many people.<BR/><BR/>Now, I would address each of these comments with one blanket statement: child sexual abuse and child pornography are <B>far too prevalent</B> to be taken lightly. If you took the time to watch the Project Safe Childhood video - then I think you'll agree: even one of these cases is too many.<BR/><BR/>If we, as educational leaders, can help others to think more carefully about what they do online - and these efforts result in fewer incidents of abuse - then I think the efforts we may have spent will be will worth it (even if fear - and not statistics - have been the motivating factor).<BR/><BR/>Besides, if there's really no harm in posting children's personal information to the Internet, then why do so many schools have policies specifically regulating the kinds of information posted on school and district web sites? In our district, for example, <A HREF="http://www.jordandistrict.org/policymanual/p.php?id=55" REL="nofollow">see this policy</A>, section II D. This policy was put into place specifically to ensure "safety and privacy".<BR/><BR/>It's been my experience that policies are put into place <I>because</I> something has occurred warranting their need.<BR/><BR/>I'll think more about this topic, rest assured, and will probably post a follow-up. I'll also inquire about our district's online safety policy and its history - we'll see if there are incidents giving basis for its existence.Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-5946588843963360482007-12-15T21:06:00.000-07:002007-12-15T21:06:00.000-07:00Clay,I had never really considered the term "kids"...Clay,<BR/><BR/>I had never really considered the term "kids" as being a derogatory term. Perhaps a post on it my provide some more depth to your position. I'd look forward to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-49478258595334417892007-12-15T20:46:00.000-07:002007-12-15T20:46:00.000-07:00The "kids" meme is really getting to me.Can we fin...The "kids" meme is really getting to me.<BR/><BR/>Can we find a more respectful word for these young individuals?<BR/><BR/>I know you're riffing off Jakes and all, but still. Our word choice is important.<BR/><BR/>How about "Learners" instead of "students," "kids," or "children" from, say, middle school onwards?CBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11236657531187596253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-34071595961559820132007-12-15T20:44:00.000-07:002007-12-15T20:44:00.000-07:00Dean, thanks for once again proving the value of ...Dean, thanks for once again proving the value of a blog is often in its comments. <BR/><BR/>This one's a keeper - especially for those who err on the side of fear. "Read this post, watch the videos, then read the comments." Simple workshop instructions on internet safety?CBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11236657531187596253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-25549917527273393292007-12-15T20:34:00.000-07:002007-12-15T20:34:00.000-07:00Well, what a conversation! I feel Dean has really ...Well, what a conversation! <BR/><BR/>I feel Dean has really presented a solid argument. What I appreciate about his argument is that he looks at the facts and current practice. I have issues with videos that contain no information, and yet are trying to sway opinion. <BR/><BR/>Reading these comments, I kept thinking about digital citizenship. This is something that escapes most people, young and old. Wikipedia doesn't even have any content should you try a search. <BR/><BR/>My personal digital citizenship has been an evolutionary process in itself. My citizenship is formed from pursing my interests, using online tools and consuming and creating information. I understand that what I do online is no different of what I do in my community. <BR/><BR/>We need to work with children to facilitate the discovery of their surrounding world, both the physical and digital. We teach kids etiquette and manners for public places and the same needs to be done for online spaces. When discussing and modeling digital citizenship to kids, one topic is online safety but as Dean has pointed out, another is online responsibility- regarding bullying. I feel this is difficult for adults as they are often unfamiliar with their own digital citizenship. Some don’t even have one. <BR/><BR/>If we were going to live in 1960 for the rest of time, there would be no need to worry. Shifted learning is happening and will become more prevalent as technology becomes available to more people. There is a great need for change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-7361968238979294162007-12-15T20:27:00.000-07:002007-12-15T20:27:00.000-07:00I have a variety of web sites that I use to teach ...I have a variety of web sites that I use to teach internet safety saved in <A HREF="http://del.icio.us/njtechteacher/internet_safety" REL="nofollow">delicious</A>. I try to teach the students using a variety of resources. Much of what I choose to tell my students relates to thinking about what information is private. Thinking before you post is very important. Some kids would make bad choices if they weren't taught to think first. They still may make poor choices after hearing the message over the course of several years.<BR/><BR/>That said, it's also important to show them that they can connect online and have meaningful learning experiences and conversations. It's all about balance. Like Dean said, we teach our kids to drive after giving them lessons. There are lessons they need in Internet usage too. Our local police have arrested several individuals who arrived from out of state - so it does happen and I'm in a small commuter town outside New York.<BR/><BR/>I'll take a look at NetSmartz when I get a chance. It may not be until summer to be honest.<BR/><BR/>Balance is the key.Ann Orohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11137060994986827867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-87420847711538942602007-12-15T20:13:00.000-07:002007-12-15T20:13:00.000-07:00Dean-I'm with you, brother. I'm way tired of the ...Dean-<BR/><BR/>I'm with you, brother. I'm way tired of the American media's portrayal of the whole predator thing. At one time I was pretty caught up in that...but no more. I actually think our parents are ready to see students doing positive work with social software/media. "To Catch a Predator," and "The Dark Side of the Internet" kinds of presentations that spread panic filled the room a few years ago-but I don't think they will any more.<BR/><BR/>MattMatt Montagnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10043255947997478607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-39517186681381683052007-12-15T20:00:00.000-07:002007-12-15T20:00:00.000-07:00I agree with Shareski- you have to be careful in H...I agree with Shareski- you have to be careful in HOW the information is presented. Here is one way to think about it- if you teach the child to respect technology and its powers then they will be responsible. If you scare the parents away from it, they won't teach their child to respect technology, and therefore they will be the ones who go around sneaking onto My Space or other "no no" areas. <BR/><BR/>It needs to be balanced. The parents and children need to understand how things can be quickly unraveled with technology- whether it's sharing personal information/pictures or being tracked down because too much information is given and yet how helpful it can be when you're selective with who you network with and how you network. <BR/><BR/>And this is true in life. Remember "SLAM" books or even personal notes that you passed back in forth in school? How much damage could be done if the wrong hands got on the SLAM book or a particular note? Pictures could still be taken and shared- it was just a bit slower at getting around. Those who taught children to be respectful of the written word - well they probably weren't the ones getting caught writing things they shouldn't and hanging around people that were "bad influences". That's all we're trying to teach today's kids- but on a technology level as well as a face to face level.Danielle Abernethyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00830773539673089566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-89307997923533343322007-12-15T19:33:00.000-07:002007-12-15T19:33:00.000-07:00The sad fact is that sexual abuse is most often co...The sad fact is that sexual abuse is most often committed by family members or close friends http://tinyurl.com/2p96zh<BR/><BR/>These kids are more at risk at home than online.dianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292813474160548707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-18839925235848694092007-12-15T19:12:00.000-07:002007-12-15T19:12:00.000-07:00Careful yes but not to avoid it. The think before ...Careful yes but not to avoid it. The think before you post video does offer an image that could be misconstrued as provocative. That should be discussed. <BR/><BR/>I have no problems with my kids posting where they live and what school they go to. Heck the local newspapers been doing this for years and there's way more potential for a local weirdo to have access to a newspaper than someone living thousands of miles away.<BR/>See this <A HREF="http://ideasandthoughts.org/2007/01/04/why-privacy-is-moot-point/" REL="nofollow">post</A><BR/>In fact, Steve Dembo told me of a high school in Iowa where students must post their full names and pictures in order to develop their online portfolio. I don't think young students benefit from explicitly posting private information but in high school I can see the benefits.<BR/><BR/>To say that posting a picture with information is a "recipe for disaster" is the kind of hysteria that the media eats up. There just is <B>no statistical evidence</B> to prove it. It's the daredevil behaviour of kids that causes problems. And even then the incidents are few and certainly the media picks up on all of those. <BR/><BR/>Could bad stuff happen? Sure. The facts don't suggest that it's because they post things online. I'm more concerned with kids posting stuff online that lead to cyberbullying. This is much more prevalent that any adult/sexual type issues but in many ways harder to control since bullies can use almost anything real or not to bully.<BR/><BR/>Even then it comes down to posting quality work. Someone might argue that anyone could take your photo/work and manipulate it or distribute it in nefarious ways. But the only solution then is to never post anything online or even in your school's intranet since kids can likely find stuff on their local networks.<BR/><BR/>I guess my point is that statistically, it just doesn't add up. I know of no case where a dangerous situation occurred from posting online. I really don't see a great difference between online safety and offline safety. When you're in public, be respectful, use manners, all strangers aren't bad but you want to find safe places and environments to talk to them, dress appropriately and look out for others. So teach safety and if you choose not to post pictures or names because you want to maintain your privacy, that's your choice but to say that posting pictures of kids is a recipe for disaster is untrue.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the conversation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-32623717062798460132007-12-15T17:56:00.000-07:002007-12-15T17:56:00.000-07:00Dean,You can't be suggesting that kids shouldn't b...Dean,<BR/><BR/>You can't be suggesting that kids shouldn't be VERY careful about what they post, can you?<BR/><BR/>Are you saying that the girl <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwBz-hxjSLU" REL="nofollow">in this video</A> has done herself a service in sharing her likeness? In the beginning, the girl thinks that she has "put forth her best" - it is, after all, a picture of herself that she apparently liked. Nevertheless, because she didn't think about who would be viewing the picture, she was later sorry she ever posted the picture in the first place. In her case (and in many similar online cases), things once posted were forever posted.<BR/><BR/>As for posting personal information (your final thoughts), I think it's different for you, as an adult, than it is for children. I've posted far more information about myself, for example, than I would ever want any of my children (at this point in their lives) posting. Do you really want your kids to post about where they live, what school they attend and how old they are. <BR/><BR/>That information, combined with a name and a photo are a recipe for disaster.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, again, balance is the key - because (as you know) the Internet can provide a rich, positive, learning environment.Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-63604123288294108122007-12-15T15:21:00.000-07:002007-12-15T15:21:00.000-07:00I might challenger your second assumption....http:...I might challenger your second assumption....<BR/><BR/>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2007/06/07/just-the-facts/<BR/><BR/>"Our research, actually looking at what puts kids at risk for receiving the most serious kinds of sexual solicitation online, suggests that it’s not giving out personal information that puts kid at risk. It’s not having a blog or a personal website that does that either."<BR/><BR/>That said, I'd say the posting of personal information can be discussed not strictly in terms of danger, but in terms of impressions. How do you want to be portrayed? Are you putting forward your best? So if you can focus the discussion in terms of a positive posting of information, I think you have the right basis for meaningful conversations.<BR/><BR/>I purposely post a great deal of personal information, partly to model and partly to demonstrate positive outcomes of being transparent. Not that everyone's comfortable with that but I think we need to show positive examples.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-31859349552910170572007-12-15T11:34:00.000-07:002007-12-15T11:34:00.000-07:00You're absolutely correct, Dean - and on several c...You're absolutely correct, Dean - and on several counts:<BR/><BR/>* When viewed alone this video can give the wrong impression.<BR/><BR/>* Conversations with strangers is the real gateway to potential problems (although I would add that posting personal information without thinking of the consequences is equally damaging).<BR/><BR/>* Balance is key.<BR/><BR/>I'm just glad they've given me an opportunity to help them to see all sides of the issue - because I, like you, have found tremendous value in online interaction (both educationally and socially).Darren Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578208859042859340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1293651735518246988.post-8540191588798451952007-12-15T10:21:00.000-07:002007-12-15T10:21:00.000-07:00I have some real concerns with the impact of a vid...I have some real concerns with the impact of a video like this and it's public perception.<BR/><BR/>Those who watch this would be under the perception that being online is a highly dangerous activity. The facts just do not support this.<BR/><BR/>While the horribleness of child pornography and child sexual abuse is not to be dismissed, it's just not as prevalent as this video might suggest. The video really doesn't address statistics. The vast majority of kids do not engage in conversations with strangers which is the real gateway to potential problems.<BR/><BR/>Again, I hope I'm not in any way saying we ought not to help kids and parents understand some of the dangers and issues but it needs to be presented very carefully. Much the same we teach kids safe driving habits, everyone sees driving as a pretty safe activity in general. We are aware of the dangers but don't stop our kids from driving or don't worry every time we buckle up. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure you'll provide a balanced approach, but this video, when shown out of context of the real facts, might send the wrong message.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com